14:58:27 From James Butler : Hey Folks 14:59:21 From James Butler : I'm moderating the chat today so if you have any questions or points I can flag them up. 14:59:31 From Sue Cowley : Thanks James for helping out! 14:59:35 From Sarah Hardwell : Hi James 14:59:50 From James Butler : Hey Sarah how's it going? 14:59:56 From Sue’s iPad : hi every one nice to see ya all 15:00:18 From nazma : afternoon all 15:00:30 From Anne Swift : Hello everyone from a grey and cold Scarborough 15:00:42 From Catherine Gardner : Good afternoon all. 15:00:45 From Leila Ammar : Hello everyone 15:01:24 From Kim : thanks Sue! 15:02:05 From Paul Busby : Hi from NEU N. Yorkshire 15:02:20 From James Butler : Hey Paul 15:02:23 From Lucy Coleman : Hi everyone, Lucy from Oxfordshire NEU 15:02:24 From Catherine Gardner : If there are individual risk assessments which means that not enough staff can go in and the setting cannot open. Can all staff to be furloughed? 15:02:45 From James Butler : Hey FolksI'm moderating the chat today so if you have any questions or points I can flag them up. 15:02:53 From James Butler : Thanks Catherine 15:03:38 From Catherine Gardner : Also if all parents decide not send in children - so effectively setting does not open - can staff be furloughed. Or do you put in headcount of absent children and claim funding and then partially furlough if does not cover all staff? 15:04:04 From Catherine Gardner : I am in the voluntary sector by the way also 15:04:21 From Catherine Gardner : So normally most of children funded. 15:08:21 From James Butler : Hey FolksI'm moderating the chat today so if you have any questions or points I can flag them up. 15:09:24 From nazma : u need the staff for the extra cleaning 15:10:22 From Emma Davis : I’m very concerned that even with furloughing staff, running on minimum ratio, we still can’t cover additional overheads - rent, utilities, insurance etc 15:10:23 From nazma : I would like to talk about what our LA is doing so you may be able to ask your LA. 2 LA’s are funding on historic . 15:10:27 From Anne Swift : I would be interested to know about the maintained nursery sector too 15:10:45 From nazma : in our LA maintained nurseries are in the same boat 15:10:54 From Rebecca Bye : Hi James, would it be possible to get a copy of this p.point presentation? It's really good and will help me when I talk this all through with my treasurer. Tks, Becca 15:11:06 From Catherine Gardner : Islington have said they will pay for “absent children” also 15:11:11 From Kathryn Firth : NYCC is now no..... 15:11:20 From Sue’s iPad : kent have not made a decision 15:11:57 From nazma : how come LA’s can do different things when there is one direction from govt. 15:12:12 From James Butler : A very fluid situation I think is the reason Naz 15:12:12 From Catherine Gardner : @ Nazma yes I was wondering this 15:12:37 From Kate Morris : This is a link to the most updated document of the LA's (From FB Champagne Nurseries on Lemondade Funding) 15:12:39 From Kate Morris : https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/nk1kerisrlvayf2zzh9ev/List-of-Councils-Funding-Children-in-Spring-Term-2021.xlsx?dl=0&rlkey=t26p6fvrph73h87ahmbnjwlz6&fbclid=IwAR33wZV3hkhd06scYzM5v4ng75vbEy5rOZZ3D1puLCIKMnEX2zb-A43dw9g 15:13:10 From Kate Morris : (which LAs are funding or not etc) 15:13:22 From James Butler : Dithering over closing nurseries. think we're headed that we 15:13:27 From Polly Jones : ....MNS are not able to furlough staff☹️ 15:13:52 From Leila : Naz because LAs have some powers. I was in a tweet conversation with my council leader about discretionary powers this morning vs what they have to do due to government rules about something else this morning] 15:13:56 From nazma : we should be fighting for them to close and find! save lives and save businesses 15:14:22 From nazma : so if they are discretionary...why can’t they do it on historic? 15:14:35 From Kathryn Firth : Why are MNS different re: furlough 15:14:37 From Catherine Gardner : @ nazma yes agree 15:14:51 From nazma : MNS can furlough 15:15:12 From nazma : MNS in Birmingham have furloughed previous 15:16:31 From Leila : Do they have permission to close us though? I was discussing use of pesticides that kill bees and asking general questions of him about what powers the LA actually have] 15:18:35 From Alison Stewart : We have been told that furlough is based on October salary. What happens if the member of staff was on maternity leave in October or they started their job after October? 15:19:00 From Leila : Didn't the emergency powers act thing from way back at the beginning state that the government had the power to force settings (including PVI) to open? I'm sure it did in the actual act paperwork. 15:19:14 From nazma : every Setting needs to email their LA so they LA have an understanding of the issues, they meet with dfe regularly 15:19:56 From Sue’s iPad : we have been in touch with La we have sent letters to KCC and our MP 15:20:07 From Kate Morris : We are a one room charity preschool - we aren't offering 30 hours funded from Monday. 15 hours funded hours for 3+ Mon - Fri am only. 2 year olds PM only. Key worker and vulnerable children have option to stay all day 15:20:29 From Leila : I'm going to see if I can find the act 15:20:35 From nazma : if you don’t claim funding, you can do what you want. 15:22:17 From David Wright : Last time, people on maternity still counted 15:22:30 From Diana Lawton : HMRC says they know nothing about the percentages the DfE state and so they are comfortable with us claiming full furlough as long as we have accounted for funding in the services we were provided. 15:22:54 From Chloe : I'm not sure whether the ability to furlough applies to nursery classes in schools? Our nursery class is currently closed because we unfortunately have several members of staff out of action, but County is trying to pressure us to open 15:23:00 From Diana Lawton : Mat pay as long s through payroll counts 15:23:40 From Polly Jones : schools and mns can’t furlough as their staffing budget is set 15:23:56 From hannah gaukroger : does the 3 week minimum for furlough no longer stand? 15:24:02 From Chloe : State 15:24:10 From nazma : MNS and schools can furlough. our LA said. 15:24:16 From James Butler : Yes sorry Chloe no furlough 15:24:29 From Catherine Gardner : Does anyone know about 80% uplift which LAs can apply to fund difference between normal amount we receive and what we receive this term. I have seen this mentioned somewhere. 15:24:32 From Diana Lawton : Stopped when we moved to flexible furlough so can now do different hours each week and furlough for different bits 15:24:37 From James Butler : Not with flexi furlough Hannah 15:24:49 From Polly Jones : which La has agreed to furlough staff in schools 15:24:53 From Leila : Found it Section 17 coronavirus act 2020 the sec of State can force setting to open 15:24:54 From nazma : if that staff member is surplus 15:25:15 From Sarah Gisbourne : Wish I had more staff rather than running a very tight ship with staff, the pressure it puts on my super team. 15:25:23 From Leila : It's called a temporary continuity direction 15:25:34 From Niamh Sweeney : Last time - parents returning from stat maternity and paternity leave are eligible for furlough. Check with HMRC 15:25:41 From Alison Stewart : I meant that they were on maternity leave in October but have come back now. Last time we had a member of staff who we could only claim 80% of what they got on their maternity leave even though they were back full time. 15:25:56 From nazma : but you need staff to ensure the extra cleaning 15:26:05 From nazma : to stay safe 15:26:30 From Kate Morris : Nazma: When we opened in June we cut the session times down to enable us to clean after the session 15:26:41 From marg’s iPad : I am in a mns, we were told that we can not furlough staff who work with gov funded children. we can only furlough if someone is paid purely from parent fees. 15:26:45 From nazma : you have to offer the 15 hours 15:28:25 From nazma : in our LA there was covid funding to cover loss of fees due to covid 15:28:26 From marg’s iPad : we were never closed 15:29:01 From marg’s iPad : we couldn’t do that 15:29:02 From Polly Jones : mns couldn’t access Covid recovery fund 15:29:33 From Polly Jones : ...mns are completely displaced in all of this. 15:29:53 From James Butler : go on David 15:30:17 From Catherine Gardner : re 85% i have seen reference to this from my local authority. “should spring 2021 numbers be less than 85% of Spring 2020numbers there may be some local authority level protection.” 15:30:44 From Catherine Gardner : my local authority are seeing clarification from DfE to assess this. 15:31:43 From Kim Doherty : Have you been able to claim any grants as a charitable organisation? 15:31:59 From Emma Davis : Exactly! we need that information now! 15:32:06 From Diana Lawton : As a community interest company, we got the 50k bounceback loan 15:32:39 From Paul Busby N.Yorks : Woeful lack of info & guidance from DfE 15:33:15 From Kim Doherty : Sounds familiar. 15:33:45 From Anne Swift : The overriding consideration has to be safety and reducing transmission of the virus. So need to have fewer kids in any kind of setting and thus protecting the key workers so they can attend work. 15:33:58 From Sue’s iPad : they do not. Lao ll 15:34:01 From nazma : agree anne 15:34:07 From Catherine Gardner : Yes Ann. I totally agree 15:34:12 From James Butler : NAz has something to say 15:34:51 From Sue’s iPad : they do not, it would be more helpful if all LAs were the same level playing field 15:35:51 From James Butler : Hancock said we were closed this morning 15:36:00 From James Butler : on Marr 15:36:13 From James Butler : Arse from elbow people 15:36:33 From James Butler : Hey FolksI'm moderating the chat today so if you have any questions or points I can flag them up. 15:36:40 From Sue’s iPad : we have most of our children back plus 3 new children. stay at home 🤷‍♀️ 15:36:53 From marg’s iPad : they changed the guidance on Friday afternoon. prior to that, whether to open to all or just kw or vulnerable was at the headteacher discretion for a nursery class in a primary school. 15:36:55 From Sue Cowley : We do too Sue! So many children 15:37:02 From Kim : torn between encourage them to come in for money or stay away for H&S 15:37:05 From Catherine Gardner : If you would like to look at this - there is now most recent data on rates for 0-4 year olds. Rate of infection in my area is more than 5-9 15:37:32 From Sarah Hardwell : Where's that information Catherine? 15:37:48 From Catherine Gardner : Sorry for some reasons cannot cut and paste 15:38:16 From Leila : @James did he Hancock said we were closed this morning on Marr? I started to have a panic attack when Hancock started talking and that red background..i had to switch it off. 15:38:16 From Anne Swift : The fragmentation of the system, lack of transparency over funding and government telling parents they are entitled to places but then not funding sufficiently or for the long term are systemic issues which C19 has shone a spotlight on - My only optimism is we might get a better more sustainable funding model post Covid 15:39:19 From Catherine Gardner : but look at the following link coronavirus.data.gov.uk 15:39:29 From James Butler : Sorry, I got kicked out then so i've lost the chat :P 15:39:47 From Catherine Gardner : Put in your local postcode to find in your area 15:39:58 From James Butler : He did Leila, I think he misspoke but no correction issued yet 15:40:25 From Catherine Gardner : And go into people tested positive and you should find a heat map with this information. 15:41:12 From Catherine Gardner : UK coronavirus dashboard. 15:41:31 From James Butler : Specially with all these tests sitting unused in secondary schools about to hit their expiration dates 15:41:45 From Niamh Sweeney : https://www.early-education.org.uk/all-party-parliamentary-group-nursery-schools-nursery-and-reception-classes There is a Westminster All decate on the effect of Covid on the Sector on Tuesday. Email your MP's today with your own settings concerns 15:42:10 From nazma : sorry dont know what happened 15:42:30 From James Butler : OOO that's a good point Sue 15:42:36 From James Butler : I bet that's it 15:42:57 From nazma : our LA is worried about sustainability 15:43:03 From Sarah Gisbourne : Has anyone else have any staff refuse to come into work? I have, my deputy which has caused a huge headache. Still ongoing, not easy. 15:43:06 From Sarah Hardwell : Thanks Catherine 15:43:25 From nazma : LA has a duty to ensure enough childcare in area ...sorry sufficiency 15:43:27 From David Wright : Yes, a couple 15:43:33 From Emma Davis : our LA is concerned about sustainability too. I was told that they need us as much as we need them. 15:43:36 From James Butler : Yes, a few for me too 15:43:48 From Sarah Gisbourne : We spoke to our HR,he is handling it now. 15:43:48 From marg’s iPad : 9 of my staff issued a section 44 letter to me on Tuesday 15:43:58 From Catherine Gardner : It is clear to me that even if we could open now - come September - we would not get enough new children to be sustainable. 15:44:01 From James Butler : Section 44s, mostly pushed by their childcare consideration 15:44:15 From Simona McKenzie : H&S!!! 15:44:20 From Catherine Gardner : Not enough funded 2 year old two year olds will arrive. So sustainability is not just an issue now. 15:44:26 From David Liley : Its a massive issue that we are not well represented by any single body and several of the bodies and individuals purporting to represent us are simply pressing their own agenda. Nothing in this provides us with a viable way forward just a mess really 15:44:37 From Rebecca Bye : Our LA have told us.. "if parents choose not to send their children in then we are unable to fund them" (headcount on 18th Jan). They are telling us to tell our parents "send your children in or you will lose your funding"!!!!!!! How can they expect us to do that to the parents!! 15:44:48 From nazma : yes this is a long term issue 15:44:56 From Paul Busby N.Yorks : Lobby wherever possible. Ask LA to lobby on your behalf. Raise the issue of potential risk of closure with LA if nothing changes so as to alert LA that “sufficiency” is at risk. 15:45:00 From Kate S : How has everyone dealt with new starters settling in? 15:45:03 From nazma : September is always quiet 15:45:12 From marg’s iPad to Sue Cowley(Privately) : 9 of my staff issued a section 44 letter to me on Tuesday 15:45:21 From Lucy Coleman : We need some of the big EYs organisations and unions to work together to make a joint statement on funding for EYs through the pandemic 15:45:35 From Simona McKenzie : EY is not unionised. We need to start thinking about unions. those who represent us are NOT unions! 15:45:39 From nazma : they’ve done it Lucy 15:45:40 From Sue Cowley to marg’s iPad(Privately) : Woah, are you closing? 15:45:47 From James Butler : Yes Simona 15:45:47 From Sarah Hardwell : Kate S we've tried all sorts to welcome new starters, different plan for each individual! 15:46:05 From Leila : Kate we allow parents into the garden in mask and have part of first settle session outside keyworker:child 15:46:15 From Kate S : Thank you Leila 15:46:19 From Lucy Coleman : Nazma they all seem to be saying different things through 15:46:29 From Lucy Coleman : *though 15:46:29 From Diana Lawton : We can't unionise - I tried but we are not employed by the government so the union just stands as a voice between employees and employers so not representing us to government 15:46:42 From Catherine Gardner : agree @lucy coleman 15:46:56 From Niamh Sweeney : Everyonce can unionise @Diana 15:46:59 From David Liley : We might lobby the NHS locally at the highest level because if we close they have nowhere for their staff to send their younger children 15:47:03 From Emma Davis : We’re still supporting those children not attending. we’re updating tapestry with play and learning ideas, stories and videos. in essence, we’re still providing a service. 15:47:05 From nazma : no they have made a joint statement 15:47:12 From Leila : we have explained to parents that settling may take a little longer than usual and we are coping as best we can, so far my 3 new settles last week (preschool) seem OK, and lower down the babies are pretty much settling as normal 15:47:12 From nazma : all 3 of them 15:47:21 From Simona McKenzie : There are unions looking into EY. There is one on twitter but I can't think of the mant ATM 15:47:46 From Lucy Coleman : The NEU is building it's EYs network. 15:47:46 From Diana Lawton : We can but we can only represent the sector to their employers... that's not the government. I tried for about 4 months last year but we can be a union to support employees but not to represent us to government. 15:47:50 From Leila : Simmona do you mean the yellow one? 15:48:02 From marg’s iPad to Sue Cowley(Privately) : we are open for kw and vulnerable at the moment, temp measure for 2 weeks! 15:48:37 From Simona McKenzie : All EY employees have a right to belong to a Union 15:48:41 From Diana Lawton : I think we need to ask our parents to say they are due to be in imminently rather than not coming during whole of lockfown 15:49:07 From Kate Morris : our LA have a 2 week grace period for absence. We said to parents they can they give us notice to leave at Feb half term to enable us to claim 4 more weeks funding. This enables them to have the choice to come back in Feb half term as they can retract their notice. 15:49:21 From Diana Lawton : Employees do completely - but we don't want to pit employees against employers who are fighting for their jobs already? We need representation to the government but we cant do that as union 15:49:32 From Anne Swift : Anybody know what happens in other countries? Any good practice anywhere. 15:49:44 From David Liley : The open 'at all costs' vs furlough is not a real choice. If private nurseries close and furlough many will still not re-open 15:49:46 From nazma : also it’s the safety factor of this nee virus and ppl dying!! 15:50:08 From nazma : that’s what I’m trying to say David 15:50:16 From Kate S : yesyesyes please 15:50:18 From Paul Busby N.Yorks : Yes!!! 15:50:26 From Gaynor : yes please 15:50:28 From Lucy Coleman : I think Elaine Bennett had an open letter about funding? 15:50:29 From James Butler : Exaclty David 15:50:30 From Emma Davis : yes please 15:50:30 From Libby Gillett : yes please 15:50:33 From Diana Lawton : Can I just speak for a moment about the question of unions? 15:50:36 From Adam : Yes please 15:50:42 From Paula Rimmer : 👍🏼 15:51:06 From Catherine Gardner : For me the priority is children, families and staff health and safety and then properly funded so we can re-open when things are safer 15:51:37 From Sarah Gisbourne : They all need to come and work in a day in EY and see how close we are to the children. 15:51:47 From Paula Rimmer : I would like a union with a reasonable fee as my staff would like to join, but the cost is an issue. 15:51:53 From Catherine Gardner : If so many nurseries go under - then there willl not be enough nurseries for children when things are better. 15:51:59 From James Butler : yes paul 15:52:11 From James Butler : paula* 15:52:49 From Paula Rimmer : Sorry I meant to say - do you know a union that I can recommend to staff which has a reasonable monthly fee? 15:52:52 From James Butler : on it Diana, i'll bring you ib 15:52:54 From Simona McKenzie : Vicky Ford is Gibb's poodle....sorry but true 15:53:22 From James Butler : No Paula, they all cost too much for our teams imo 15:53:30 From Niamh Sweeney : We will be discussig the need for sustainable Early Years funding at the National Education Union Exec on Thursday. I promise it is on our radar 15:54:05 From Anne Swift : I agree with Niamh - Im on exec too 15:54:05 From Gaynor : what is your twitter name sue 15:54:06 From Catherine Gardner : I believe that NEU are looking at reduced rates for nursery staff. 15:54:08 From nazma : ey alliance and ndna are ours. we pay them . 15:54:10 From Lucy Coleman : We do have NEU members in Early Years that aren't teachers 15:54:20 From marg’s iPad : a few of my staff are in NEU 15:54:29 From Simona McKenzie : We need to be proactive in EY 15:55:48 From nazma : I agree with you Diane 15:55:53 From Catherine Gardner : There is the split between employers and employees 15:56:07 From James Butler : yes catherine 15:56:17 From Emma Davis : I’m with Voice the Union but don’t feel they’ve been very proactive at all. is anyone else with them? 15:56:21 From Catherine Gardner : It is difficult to reach the early years workers. Often like in here it is owners/managers 15:56:33 From Catherine Gardner : No i don’t think Voice is Emma 15:57:40 From Paula Rimmer : I think a single voice sounds a really good idea. I am in Gloucestershire and would be happy to organise/be part of this! 15:57:47 From nazma : thank you Diane!!! my feelings 15:57:48 From David Wright : Are we encouraged by the recent joint statement / campaign from EYA, NDNA, PACEY? 15:57:50 From Catherine Gardner : This is for owners. But Unions are crucial for employees 15:58:10 From nazma : I am more encouraged by my LA 15:58:22 From Catherine Gardner : I am a Lead Practitioner but also an employee 15:58:23 From Rebecca Bye to Sue Cowley(Privately) : Hi Sue, I'm not on twitter... could you possibly email me the letter: chair@coldashpreschool.org.uk. Thank you so much for this meeting!||! 15:58:55 From nazma : the difficulty is the early year’s sector is so versatile! there will never be one size fits al 15:58:57 From Simona McKenzie : There are other unions as wellto apprach...GMB and Unison 15:59:01 From Lucy Coleman : One thing NEU can do is work with other organisations to put out a coherent message 15:59:16 From Catherine Gardner : Yes Lucy 15:59:43 From Niamh Sweeney : We are asking for you to be safe AND sustainably funded! 16:00:00 From Sue Cowley : Thanks Niamh! I just meant in terms of what is most urgent atm!! 16:00:00 From nazma : the NEU did well and got schools shut, but the govt increased keyworket lists reformed and more children in!! 16:00:49 From Niamh Sweeney : Check the 'critical workers' list this has been updated from Friday. 16:02:00 From Simona McKenzie : Please can we also include childminderrs and preschoolsnot just nurseries!! 16:02:09 From Anne Swift : We want nurseries open for key workers so society can operate but it has to be safe and being open fully does not protect everyone. Schools are not closed either, they are open - some with more than 50% attendance. 16:02:18 From James Butler : I an in that boat as a parent David 16:02:52 From Kim Doherty : Chris Whitty is going to be on BBC Breakfast tomorrow morning a7.30am you can email questions to bbcbreakfast@bbc.co.uk 16:02:57 From Catherine Gardner : New evidence is pointing towards increase rates in 0-4 16:03:13 From nazma : it was going to happen catherine 16:03:20 From Anne Swift : closure is a short hand term but it doesn’t mean no one is in 16:03:37 From Catherine Gardner : Yes @nazma 16:04:14 From nazma : your LA’s are the ones that will feed back to the dfe what u r feeling. everyone bombard your LA’s like Ofsted were recently. 16:04:16 From Kim : Parents and school children at the gate! 16:04:44 From Catherine Gardner : Yes. It is about protecting the whole community 16:04:46 From Anne Swift : Covid has really exposed these issues around funding for the sector 16:04:53 From Rebecca Bye : Safe & Sustainable... my new motto!! 16:05:02 From nazma : yes Rebecca!!! 16:05:35 From nazma : we are always forgotten...no different now! 16:06:33 From Paul Busby N.Yorks : C-19 doesn’t discriminate between private / maintained / union / non-union! Well said, Niamh! 16:06:34 From Lucy Coleman : I agree Niamh, you put it better than I could! 16:07:27 From Anne Swift : it’s not just about childcare either - we are very aware that children need that early education too in order to thrive in later education stages and then there are the safeguarding aspects but it all need to be achieved as safely as possible. 16:08:00 From Niamh Sweeney : Absolutely Anne! 16:08:08 From nazma : I don’t know why the dfe cannot fund on historical. they have that figure already and we can build up slowly..like autumn. I don’t want to close. I’m happy to be open. 16:08:14 From Paul Busby N.Yorks : https://neu.org.uk/press-releases/neu-launches-interactive-school-covid-map-website 16:09:15 From Catherine Gardner : sorry I have to go. Thank you this has been really useful 16:09:28 From nazma : thank you for this sue 16:09:28 From Kate S : Thank you Sue :-) 16:09:52 From Paul Busby N.Yorks to Sue Cowley(Privately) : Send it as a file here? 16:10:11 From Paula Rimmer : Thank you so much - that was really helpful. 🙌🏼 16:10:20 From Gaynor : what is your website please 16:10:44 From Kate Morris : THE EYA has a link to email you MP about the vaccination for tomorrow 16:10:46 From Simona McKenzie : Share the link on twitter please 16:11:03 From Anne Swift : Thanks for organising this Sue and the wide ranging discussion. Just feel that if the government really valued early education we wouldn’t be in this position. 16:11:16 From Gaynor : thank you 16:11:17 From Niamh Sweeney : APPG Nursery Schools debate on Tuesday 12 January 2.30 - 4 Westminster Hall debate on the impact of Covid on EY settings 16:11:22 From Lucy Coleman : If anyone is interested in joining my Value Early Years group the link is here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/valueearlyyears 16:11:47 From nazma : keep positive everyone! we’re super heroes ..invincible👊🏼 16:11:51 From Lucy Coleman : Thanks Sue, it was really informative. 16:11:56 From Rebecca Bye : Thank you SO MUCH Sue. This past week has been so hard!! 16:11:59 From Kate Morris : THANK YOU !!!!! 16:12:03 From Lucy Coleman : Will share with members in PVI 16:12:03 From Kim : thank you 16:12:04 From David Wright : Thanks very much, Sue 16:12:06 From Simona McKenzie : #EYTalking can you share the link on twitter 16:12:07 From Alison Stewart : Thank you 16:12:09 From Victoria : thank you 16:12:12 From Gaynor : thanx 16:12:16 From Polly Jones : thankyou 16:12:18 From 876 0290 0013 : Thank you